Aiding the Policenet
Frontpage Interview’s guest today is Ethan Gutmann, author of Losing the New China: a Story of American Commerce, Desire and Betrayal. A former Beijing business consultant and former visiting Fellow at PNAC, he is the winner of "Spirit of Tiananmen" and "Chan's Journalism" awards in 2005. He has written for Weekly Standard, Asian WSJ, Investor's Business Daily and other publications.
FP: Ethan Gutmann, welcome to Frontpage Interview.
Gutmann: Thanks Jamie. It’s an honor.
FP: Google has just recently agreed to formally censor its
Gutmann: In the Nineties Internet companies presented the net as a “neutral¨ technology, but there was always an implicit wink. The Chinese Communist Party
saw that wink, saw that the net was far more powerful than the fax machines of the Tiananmen era, saw the net correctly - as the communication infrastructure for a new Chinese revolution. But these are Marxists. And as my former colleague Peter Lovelock explained, that means that you must above all embrace the means of communication. Then, control it. Fill it with Chinese voices. Block the outside. And block relationships between Chinese forces.
Blocking the outside was relatively easy. Cisco Systems developed a special firewall box in the late Nineties to sniff, examine, and ultimately throw forbidden information into the electronic trash. They received 80% of
But that last challenge to blocking relationships between Chinese forces and between alternate sources of political power is far more technically demanding. And that’s why, in an attempt to preserve their market position, Cisco developed “Policenet¨ for the Chinese Public Security Bureau in 2002. Until very recently Cisco denied the existence of the program, but its essence is wraparound surveillance. The police use it to access data on any citizen in
FP: Is Google the worst offender?
Gutmann: In terms of arrests or crude censorship, certainly not. But Google’s decision still takes my breath away. There’ something deeply insidious about the Matrix-like world of the “New China.¨ It looks like a real Internet. Chinese ministry websites are well-designed. They look transparent and accountable. But they are neither. Discussion boards look real, even impassioned. But because people are aware of State Security’s capabilities, most of the censorship is done by the participants themselves.
The Chinese government loves that, loves self-censorship. It makes everyone a participant in a collective sense of shame and impotence – injured pride that resurfaces as rage against the
FP: In your book, you discuss the tendency of businessmen to acquiesce to Chinese Communist Party objectives, financial losses, bribery and corruption, technology transfer to the People's Liberation Army, and most prominently, American business cooperation in creating China's big brother: the Internet. You paint a landscape that appears somewhat immutable. Since the book came out in 1994, how have the trends that you identified played out?
Gutmann: The shelf-life of
Yet that dance, that relationship, is hardly the whole story of
FP: In your book, you say that you caught "the
progress from the "
Gutmann: They are a little insufferable, aren’t they? But, well, take the totalitarian kitsch -- the Mao posters, the fetish of Edgar Snow - the display of this sort of paraphernalia was initially meant to be ironic, a collegiate satire of China and the expats’position within it. The problem is that as one begins to make real money in China, as one acquires friends and lovers and wives, there are consequences to not maintaining one’s status as a friend of China and thus as a friend of the Communist Party.
Most expats who really have the
As for me? I love
FP: There was a lot of scepticism when you pinned Cisco and the others in your book. And there was a lot of hostility towards you from several quarters. The very people who are now shame-facedly admitting they sponsored the suppressed Chinese internet slammed you for saying the same thing a couple of years ago. Can you give us the particulars of what you encountered in this context and the fall-out now in terms of your vindication etc?
Gutmann: Reviewers from the other side of the Pacific Pond led the charge. To give you the flavor: while Cisco's "Policenet" was ignored, I was accused of being a "culture-shocked, head between his legs, waiting-for-the-siren, McCarthy-indoctrinated writer," or perhaps I was just a "charmingly naïve" "public relations flack" who had left
Fair enough. I exposed my flank by including large personal elements: sex in
However, Cisco broke message discipline. Following Cisco's statement - "[Gutmann] has never produced one shred of evidence to support his claims" - Harry Wu and I released Cisco's "Policenet" brochures, irrefutable proof that Cisco was selling high-end surveillance to the Chinese police. Censorship may still be legal, but surveillance exports to
Look, this debate is productive when it's about a genuine difference in outlook. Many corporate representatives and their supporters sincerely believe that
Vindication? Well, Yahoo and Microsoft released a statement for the first round of Congressional hearings on the Chinese Internet: this is not "business as usual" and we need help from the government to negotiate our way out of this. It's late in the day - I personally urged the President of AmCham Beijing to make a similar statement back in 2002 - but in combination with a Congressional initiative such as the Global Internet Freedom act, this could be a baby step towards the kind of industry coalition that Microsoft successfully put together back in the winter of 2000. It's also heartening to see other journalists, commentators, and congressional investigators pick up the Chinese Internet issue, and make it their own. Personal vindication has come from the Chinese Diaspora, which recognized the value of a first-person account from behind the American business curtain, translated the book, and flew me around the world to talk about it.
But let's face it, Chinese political freedom continues to lose ground. And my relationship with the Chinese Diaspora - with Taiwanese, with Falun Gong practitioners, with exiled dissidents in
FP: What can be done to bring American corporations more in line with American foreign policy objectives of spreading democracy and human rights in
Gutmann: Back in the winter of 2000, Microsoft fought the
I still carry that surrender document with me, because it shows that business has power. And it shows that as a business consultant, I did at least one thing that I’m proud of.
Now, in the winter of 2006, Congressman Smith, on behalf of the Sub-committee on Human Rights has requested representatives from Google, Yahoo, Cisco and Microsoft at a hearing on Chinese Internet censorship. As of now, the word is that they won’t show up. Do you think they would treat a Chinese ministry request in such a fashion?
Reversing this equation, refusing to cooperate with CCP objectives is, as my document proves, possible. It just takes collective action on the corporate side. But at this point it will also take collective political will in
FP: Mr. Gutmann, thank you for joining us today.
Gutmann: Thank you Jamie.
